“Dana, you probably don’t understand this because you’re not a scientist.”

That was Heath and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. to CNN‘s Dana Bash on State of the Union this morning.

It was a true if somewhat confounding statement since, as Bash observed to the HHS honcho in response, “You’re not either.”

Their contretemps followed a back-and-forth in which Bash pressed the secretary on whether or not childhood vaccines cause autism.

“There have been more than 40 studies involving 5.6 million people to conclude there is no link between vaccines and autism,” she said, citing the American Academy of Pediatrics’ Committee on Infectious Diseases. Kennedy pointed out that many of those studies focused on the measles, mumps, rubella vaccine, saying that he wants the other childhood vaccines studied with equal vigor.

To his credit, Kennedy also urged parents to get their children the MMR vaccine, a stance he has not always fully supported.

The context for the interview was the current 35-year high in U.S. measles cases.

Given Kennedy’s outspoken stance against childhood vaccines over the years and current levels of vaccine hesitancy across the country, Bash asked him if he would accept “some responsibility” for this current measles outbreak, which saw cases rise close to tenfold between 2024 and 2025, with more than 2,300 already this year.

“Absolutely not,” said Kennedy, before maintaining that the outbreak was International in nature.

Measles were considered virtually eliminated in the U.S. after the year 2000.

You can watch more of their exchange below.