By Jeff Altman, The Big Game Hunter
I am enjoying speaking with other professionals about their ideas of how to do things. In this interview, I speak with Katie Leimkuehler (pronounced LIME-cooler) about her thoughts about these areas . . . and you’ll see the advice is not only for digital pros.
The Importance of Branding
Hi, this is Jeff Altman, The Big Game Hunter and welcome. For those of you who’ve been watching me for a while, you know, most of the time, I record short shows that are designed to give you some advice, a tip on some particular subject. But Katie Leimkuhler, and I’m going to spell her name for you in a second, reached out to me.
I thought she had a terrific topic for us. Katie is a social media marketing professional and career coach who basically helps people employ personal branding techniques to land jobs. And Katie’s last name, K-A-T-I-E, is the first name, last name is L-I-E-M K-U-E-H-L-E-R.
Did I do that one right? I think so. Thank you. I think you would know if I did it wrong.
Katie, welcome. I appreciate you making time today. Yeah, thanks so much for having me.
My pleasure. So, Katie, if someone were working in digital and starting to think about networking and branding and all that kind of stuff, give us a sense of a couple of different places that they could kick things off for themselves. Yes, I think the first thing to think about is who you want to target, who you want to connect with and where they’re living online.
So, if you’re looking for a job or if you’re just trying to build your personal brand, thinking about where they are. So, LinkedIn might be a great place to start. It’s just getting a LinkedIn profile, maybe setting up some websites with your name on it, maybe a WordPress or blogging site, and Twitter or Facebook, depending on what you’re doing.
So, the first thing I would say is thinking about who you want to find you and what you want them to find, and then thinking about building your profiles so it tells a story. Now, we know so many people live on LinkedIn. Are there other places that the target audience lives that folks should reach out to them at? I think it depends on what industry you’re in.
So, if you’re trying to build a personal brand and you’re in photography or design or fashion, Pinterest or Instagram might be a great place to start showcasing your work. If you’re into more of a business industry, Twitter is another great one. So, it really depends on what kind of personal brand you’re trying to develop and then understanding where those people are online.
So, doing some research ahead of time, understanding where they are is a great tip to start. You betcha. And the one thing I remind everyone about is LinkedIn is so text oriented.
It’s more about what you write than what you show, although there are some ways to show some stuff. The other platforms, clearly, there are ways that you can showcase your work. So, we’ve got a couple of sites where the audience lives.
Where else should they start off? Well, I think the next thing is to start posting on a regular basis. So, you kind of want to get in the head of the person coming to your profile, whether it’s Twitter, whether it’s LinkedIn, or if you have a website, what do you want them to find? So, you want to have your work showcased there, whether it’s photography, your writing, whatever it is that you’re doing, you want to highlight that so people get a sense of what type of work you do, that you understand it, and then posting on those social networks on a consistent basis. So, that just builds credibility when you’re able to say, yeah, you know what, I am an expert at writing and here are like examples, and then posting articles related to that.
So, the more you post things related to your industry, you’re building credibility and authority, and that’s what people look for when they’re hiring or just in general to build trust with their audience. So, when you say posting, with what frequency should someone post? I would say three times a week, maybe is a good amount. You don’t want to overdo it.
Again, it depends on the social network. So, LinkedIn, you could post less on if you wanted to, but I’d say three times a week. Twitter, you could post every day, and you can post multiple times a day if you wanted to.
So, it kind of does depend on the social network, but I think at least a few times a month to stay relevant on top of it, because one of the things I notice is when people abandon their social media channels, and let’s say they created a Twitter or LinkedIn or whatever it might be, and then they don’t do anything with it, I kind of think, well, if they dropped the ball on that, what else are they dropping the ball on? So, to stay current, to stay relevant, to show people that you can commit to something, I think it’s really important. Folks, you may have noticed me make a face at one point about dropping the ball on something. I tend to not to think about that because I tend to be an online overshare.
So, I just acknowledge my own stuff about that. And with LinkedIn, they should post to the feed, should they post to the blogging platforms or groups, where should they post on LinkedIn? I think to the feed is a great place to start if you’re just getting into it. So, just posting articles, videos, things that you find relevant.
And then I think once you get into the swing of that, if you can post in those long form blog posts, those are a great opportunity to showcase what you know, build your credibility, like I was saying. And I’ve definitely gotten clients, I’ve gotten recruiters reaching out to me, commenting on those types of blog posts. So, I think that’s really a great tool to kind of set you apart too.
Building a Digital Brand to Maximize Your Exposure and Stop Being a Generic
Because not everyone does that on LinkedIn. A lot of them do just post to the feed. So, when you do that, you kind of are setting yourself apart.
And the cool thing, folks, that you can do if you post a blog article or to the blog, is that there’s the ability to then share to the public and share to your contacts on LinkedIn, share to Twitter and Facebook. So, you can create some increased distribution for your stuff. More people see it, more people learn to know, like, trust and respect what you do, more people start reaching out to you, especially if you follow the advice about doing it with some regularity.
Monday, Wednesday, Friday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, any sense of what a schedule should look like? Yeah, I think… And this is LinkedIn that we’re talking about, not Twitter. You know, it’s always changing, but I know Thursdays tends to be a good day to post. So, a couple of studies came out recently around two o’clock on Thursdays, just generally in the two to five p.m. hour, tends to be a pretty good time.
And I would say, yeah, I think, you know, Monday, Wednesday, Thursday is good. Fridays, I don’t think it’s, you know, gets as much traction. So, I think one of the best ways to see what works for you is posting, trying out different things and then see, okay, am I getting traction on my Monday post? Is it the time of day? Is it the type of content? So, kind of doing a little analysis in your own posting to understand what’s working and what isn’t.
Do you recommend some of the services for automating the posting as a way of convenience? I think definitely. That really helps to make it easier if you can schedule stuff. And, you know, there’s a lot of different tools like Hootsuite and Buffer that you can use to do that because it does take a step out.
So, if you find, let’s say, the 12 articles on leadership, if you’re trying to build a reputation for leadership, that you want to post for the month, you can schedule that ahead of time. So, you don’t have to remember every week or every day to log in and post something. So, it definitely keeps you consistent and is a time saver for sure.
Super. So, so far, we’ve talked about understanding where people live online, who your target audience is and where they live, and starting to talk about posting as a way of creating more awareness of who you are and what you do. What else might someone do? I’m going to use the B word that so many people are reluctant to use.
Start to brand yourself as the expert that you want to be known as. So, I think the next step is engagement. So, I say posting is part one, engagement is part two.
So, when it comes to personal branding, you do want to post things that you know about, but you also want to be engaging with those conversations online. So, social media is interactive. You know, you want to have a two-way conversation.
You don’t want it to just be one way. So, joining Twitter chats on the topics of interest to you. They have them on pretty much every topic.
So, marketing, education, whatever it is, joining those, replying and interacting and commenting on other people’s posts on LinkedIn, on Facebook, whatever it might be, because it showcases you do know what you’re talking about. And then people might be like, oh, well, this person, you know, I need help with X, Y, and Z. And they sent me a reply, maybe I hire them, or maybe there’s someone I can start that conversation with. So, I think engaging with your network, engaging with new people is really where things start to change, especially in your personal brand, because it’s saying that you know what you’re talking about, and then people will reach out to you in relation to that.
Do you like Facebook groups at all for this or LinkedIn better or you tell me? So, I think it depends. I don’t know that LinkedIn groups are that strong anymore. Facebook groups are very strong.
They’ve really taken off in the last couple of years. They’re probably better than pages. I do think they’re a lot more personal.
So, if you’re trying to go there and sell your services or promote yourself, it’s probably not the best place for that. But if you’re looking to make genuine connections with people, maybe in your field, that could be a great place to do that. So, I think people there, it’s a more informal atmosphere where you can make probably a more authentic connection.
So, if that’s something you’re looking to do, I would definitely recommend it. Yeah, LinkedIn groups are pretty dead. That’s the reality to it.
Facebook groups have replaced them. We’ll see how long that currency lasts. I hope it lasts for a long time because Lord knows, I’m finally getting around to launching one in the next month or so.
But the reality is, it’s not about broadcast. If all you’re going to be doing is basically saying, buy me, buy me, no one wants to hear it, right? Why would anyone want to hear it from you? They don’t even know you because they don’t want to listen to your podcast. It’s about legitimate engagement.
And thus, it’s participation in conversations, right? Exactly. Well, and that’s one of the things in Facebook groups, like you’ll see people say, hey, I’m looking for a marketing coach. I’m looking for help with website design.
Who would you guys recommend? And then that’s your opportunity to sell yourself to them. And when people are asking for that help, that’s great. But you’re not just saying, here’s my website, come find me.
Leveraging Your Network
And that’s such a turnoff anyways, on social media, because it comes off as an advertisement, so self-promotional. And that’s when you really lose people is when you start doing those tactics, because everyone can see through them. And they know they’re not authentic.
The only place where LinkedIn is really useful in this regard is they have a service called Profinder, which if you look along the top of the toolbar, lost along the black ribbon, toward the right, there’s probably an icon that says work. Now, this is only open if you’re a paid LinkedIn user. So, I think you need minimally like a $49 a month account.
But then they start sending leads to you versus the kind of stuff that we’re talking about, which is more organic. But that’s a paid service. If you want to use LinkedIn to draw opportunities to you, you have that chance.
But Facebook groups are so good. How would someone go about finding some of the groups? So, I think it’s kind of just searching. So, looking for if you’re looking for local groups, like just trying like, Portland interior designer, and see what happened.
A lot of pages will have groups linked to them too. So, if you’re following certain pages, a lot of them will have groups, that’s something new that Facebook has been rolling out. Just, I think, searching and finding and then asking people.
So, a lot of, if you belong to an organization, like a lot of them have their own groups. So, it just is searching for the key phrases of what you would want to join. Cool.
So, so far, again, we’ve now had an engagement to posting as part of building the personal brand. What else can someone do? So, I’d say the next step, if you really want to up level your personal branding, would be to blog or get a website, your own website. So, this could be WordPress, this could be Wix, just something to showcase or highlight your work.
Because, you know, that also tells people you’ve taken the time, you’re investing yourself, and that you’re serious. So, when people Google you, if you have a website that’s, you know, just like katielimecolor.com, that’s going to come up, opposed to everything else. So, that also will help with your search ranking.
So, I think if you really want to get your personal brand going, blogging and having a website is the way to go. Even if you don’t, you know, it doesn’t have to be something you’re doing all the time, if you don’t have the time for it. But just having a place to send people to see all of your work in one area will probably make it much easier than them having to come through multiple social networks to see what did you do here? What did you do there? Oh, okay, do I have to go to YouTube to watch your videos? Like, you can have a place where most of your stuff lives, you’re making it much easier for a recruiter or whoever it is visiting your site to get that information.
And when I think of websites, whether it’s Wix, Weebly, WordPress, whatever it is, obviously great graphical content, if that’s what your work is. But ultimately, how do you keyword that in order to have or SEO that in order to have people actually find you if they’re not searching for Katie Leinkuhler? Well, I think that’s important to pick what it is that your services or your brand, what it is that you want to do. So, whether it’s a job or if you’re an entrepreneur or whatever it is, you need to have those keywords.
So, for me, a lot of it is coaching, career coaching and social media. So, I blog about those things on my website and then people, I’ll rank for that. So, they might not be looking for me, but they might be looking for help with LinkedIn or social media issues and then I will come up for that.
So, blogging about what you want to be known for is the best way to go about it. Super. So, blogging, website, anything that’s content related that helps you become more magnetic, so that people want to find you and you’re attracting people to the magnet works, folks.
Where next? So, I’d say after that, if that, you know, you get that going, I would encourage people to guest blog. This I’ve seen has been a real game changer for people, especially a couple of years ago, it was really popular, but it’s still a great tactic to get your name out there. So, if, for example, I’ll use myself, like I wanted to be known in social media.
So, I found websites that took contributing writers and I sent my blog post to them and they let me blog on their site. So, I was getting all this new exposure to people and audiences that, you know, have never heard of me. And suddenly I was getting clients and questions and being able to help people that I was not initially, or initially, you know, working with.
So, that was really awesome because it opens you up to this new audience. And then they shared on their social media, again, opening it up to a whole nother audience. So, if you can find websites, businesses that take guest bloggers and share your blogs on there, that’s a really great way to build your personal brand and get exposure to people that you probably normally wouldn’t have exposure to.
When I think of visual professionals, photographers, for example, would someone giving away some of their site, their stuff on free sites make sense just as a way of getting the word out? Or is that pushing too much? I think it does. I think you have to give in order to get. And so, in order to kind of get that ball rolling, you have to help people find you.
Otherwise, they might not even know you exist. So, initially, I think it’s totally fine, especially as you’re building your brand. That’s how most people do it.
They offer, you know, maybe an opt-in to their website, maybe a downloadable ebook, something to get people in the door to see what you’re about. So, I think that’s perfectly natural. And let’s use our own relationship as an example.
How did you find me? Yeah, exactly. I was looking for podcasts that took guest speakers. And of course, I found you and that we’re interested in career coaching and helping people.
And I was like, this is great. So, it definitely works. So, you’re a perfect example.
Thank you, folks. I’ve got 1100 episodes of one show and 700 of another. The number one and two and an Apple podcast at this point.
So, thank you for illustrating how that works. We’ve got so much that we can cover. I’m going to hand the baton over to you.
You run with it. Okay, what should we be covering next? Sure. Well, I think the next thing I would encourage people to do if they’re in that job search process is to think about contacting people through social media instead of the traditional route.
So, a lot of things I’ve worked with my clients on is that they say, okay, well, I apply for all these jobs. And no, I don’t hear from anybody or, you know, they’re just blindly applying, hoping for the best. And I always think that’s a big waste of most people’s time.
How To Use Video For Job Search and Personal Branding
Because you’re just you’re going and competing with thousands of people. So, in order to stand out, I always say like kind of go around instead of through, right? So, instead of doing that, um, looking up on the company that you’re applying to finding out who the person is that would actually hire you, not the HR person that gets, you know, first interview is who would hire you to find out who that person is. Maybe it’s the marketing director and you look them up on LinkedIn, send them a quick message.
Hey, you know what I see that you’re hiring for this position. And I’m really interested, like, would you be open to grabbing coffee? So, try and get in an informal meeting with that person. And you’re getting your foot in the door much faster than anybody else.
That tends to work really well because you’re obviously going around the typical HR process. And I think this applies to also places that you don’t see job posting. So, let’s say there’s a company that you really do want to work with, but you just don’t see a job, you know, that’s open for you.
Well, that’s actually a perfect opportunity because you’re, you can then email, find out, okay, I want to work in the marketing department, find that marketing person and say, Hey, I don’t see any job postings, but I’m like really interested in hearing about the company, what you do, all of this stuff, set up an informational interview. And then when something does come up, they may reach out to you first because they’ve already met you, or they might have something in the works. So I’ve had several people that are like, Oh, we do have a job coming, but we just haven’t posted yet.
And you’re first in line. So it’s a really great way to kind of create your own opportunity instead of competing with other people. Cut the line, folks.
Don’t get in the line. Don’t swim in the same pool everyone else is. What you want to be doing is not following the rules.
Rules are for losers. I hate to be that blunt about it, but let’s get practical. If job boards worked, would you be using job boards? You bet.
But they don’t work. You hate them. Why would you want to do what they’re telling you to do if it doesn’t work for you? Works for them, doesn’t work for you.
Cut the line, get to the front of the line so that you are advantaged and thus you’re able to showcase yourself and just instead of just being another robot in the system, going down the conveyor belt of their convenience, it doesn’t work for you. Seriously. Yeah.
I mean, it’s really great because you definitely want to find your own way. So the other thing is once you’ve really built out your LinkedIn profile, I remember maybe eight years ago, I was like, okay, I’m going to just fully fill this out. Immediately, recruiters started contacting me.
I mean, I probably every day would get someone contacting me. So the more robust your profile, the more likely, first of all, recruiters are going to reach out to you and you don’t have to do that work. And then you’re just building this profile that really establishes who you are.
So I think just being proactive about it and knowing what you want and telling that to people. So another thing I tell people to do is, okay, so you’ve met with this person. They don’t have anything.
Well, ask them for three other recommendations of people that you should talk to. So now that they know what you’re looking for, they might have a friend at another company with a perfect opening for you. So kind of just sourcing your network of people once you meet them and continuing that down, that is a really great tactic as well.
I’m going to give you two more. This one’s, it’s quirky, but I know these work. Number one is if you’re looking for a job, put your email address and or phone number if you’re open to that in the summary area of your profile.
When you’re not looking, take it out, but just make it easy for recruiters to reach out to instead of spending $15 per pop to reach to you. This one is new, at least new for me. And that is, you know how when people reach out to you, most of the time you decide yes or no, make a decision and that’s probably as far as you go.
I start to use a text expander to respond back. And the simple question I ask is, what prompted you to reach out to me? Was it this or that or this or that? What I’m trying to do is find out whether it’s someone who’s interested in coaching, someone who’s interested because they’ve listened to my podcast or watch my videos or recommended by LinkedIn, whatever it is. Now, the fun thing about this is, if you use a text expander, you don’t have to wind up keying this in time and time again.
But LinkedIn’s algorithm seems to be favoring me a lot more. And I can see a chart where my people who’ve looked at my profile has gone from like this to it’s like this. It’s really that profoundly different.
So, I was going from like 700, 800 people a week to I’m sorry, a week to two and a half thousand. Huge difference all because I attempt to engage. So, give it a shot.
Try just responding back. They’ll respond. LinkedIn’s algorithm interprets this as engagement.
They seem to be wanting this. And let’s see if your numbers start to increase. They may not be as steep as mine because I’m LinkedIn member 7653.
A lot of people reach out to me just on that basis alone. But let’s see if your numbers go up from there. I love that tip.
That’s a great one. And I think that’s excellent because you’re exactly giving them a reason to respond. I also like to respond with, how can I help you? What can I help you with? So, maybe there’s something like, are they looking to hire me? Are they looking to recruit? Or maybe they need help with a certain project, whatever it is.
So, that is also a way I like to respond to. So, that’s great. I love it.
Thank you. And one of the ways I try and draw the response back is, in my case, I offer a video about final interviews. If you’d like me to send you a video about final interviews, be happy to do that.
Branding. Brandjacking. Build Your Reputation
If you’re not interested, no problem. Just as curious as to what brought you to me. And the request for final interviews, again, gives me one more opportunity to engage with them.
I use a text expander to send it back to them. The one I use is a Chrome extension whose name escapes me. But if you look in the Chrome store, I’m sure you’ll find it.
Okay, we’ve given them ways to engage in conversations on LinkedIn. What else should they do? Well, I’m trying to think. I mean, those are a lot of the good basics.
I think once you get going with that, it’s also building, you know, turning those conversations into relationships. So, one part, you know, is the engagement and getting that going. But after that, like, you want to take those online relationships offline.
I think that’s where things start to change. So, whether it’s connecting with new people that you’re looking for a job or whoever it is, I think the in-person, the phone interview, all of that, that’s where you really get to know people and you’re going to stand out. So, in any way, whatever it is you’re trying to achieve, I would try and get, you know, start building a relationship with them.
And that, I think, will really tip things in those people’s favor. You betcha. You know, fundamentally, this is all about the relationship.
After all, if all you’re doing is connecting and then going, you got work for me, who wants that? Over the course of time, even if it’s not in this job search or this particular business opportunity that you get the work, the idea is using this over the course of a continuum of time to build a relationship. So, people think of you. So, you’re a top of mind.
It’s kind of like firms run ads on TV repeatedly so that you remember the product, right? Except the product is now you and you have to do much the same thing to become top of mind. It’s work on your part. But trust me, it really does pay off.
I worked in search for more than 40 years building networks of people to help me fill jobs because they knew, like, trust and respected the work that I did. And now, doing the coaching that I do, there’s a great opportunity for you to mirror that by taking the long game and not just simply the short one. Yeah, I think that’s a great point.
I also think, like you were saying, top of mind is huge. So, that’s why the posting on a regular basis is great because then people see you. Oh, you know what? I see Katie there.
Oh, you know what? Actually, I’ve been meaning to reach out to her about something like that’s a big one and then also adding value. So, I like to think about, who is the person coming to my profile? Who’s coming to my website? What do they need help with? So, I try and answer those questions. If someone’s coming to me for social media, someone’s going to me for career coaching, I’m going to post articles about that and trying to add value to my network.
You don’t want to just kind of post generic things like, here’s my lunch. You want to post things that’s going to help people solve problems. And then they’ll relate that to you as well.
Super. Hey, Katie, thank you so much for making time today. I really appreciate it.
How can folks find you and reach out to you? Let’s see now, would it be on LinkedIn and or elsewhere? Yes, for sure. Well, thank you so much for having me. So, LinkedIn, Katie Lime Cooler, and my website is katielimecooler.com, which is k-a-t-i-e-l-e-i-m-k-u-h-l-e-r.com. So, I’m also on Twitter.
So, yeah, people can find me in either of those places. Super. Folks, I hope you enjoyed this.
I’m Jeff Altman, The Big Game Hunter. What I do is I try and help people find work. I try and help people in their new organizations or in their existing one be more effective.
If you’re interested in my coaching, connect with me on LinkedIn at linkedin.com forward slash IN forward slash The Big Game Hunter. Once we’re connected, message me. We’ll figure out a time to speak or you may get a response from me before you message me back.
Hope you have a great day and thanks for making time. Take care.
Branding for Blue Collar and Other Workers
ABOUT JEFF ALTMAN, THE BIG GAME HUNTER
Jeff Altman, The Big Game Hunter is a coach who worked as a recruiter for what seems like one hundred years. His work involves career coaching, all as well as executive job search coaching, job coaching, and interview coaching. He is the host of “No BS Job Search Advice Radio,” the #1 podcast in iTunes for job search with more than 1800 episodes, and is a member of The Forbes Coaches Council.
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